naanima | Cutlural Differences in the 4th Wall

Entry tags:

Cutlural Differences in the 4th Wall

Interesting meta post titled - The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta. It discusses the crumbling 4th wall between fans and celebrities, and the possible repercussions of this disappearing wall.

As I said in my comment I find this topic unbelievably fascinating because this concern for the crumbling of the 4th wall seems to be a very western concept. Asian pop culture pander to their fans to the point that there don't seem to be an existence of the 4th wall; pop artists purposely play up the popular 'couples' within bands for their fans, fanfic and the love of m/m couples are so well known that they are often exploited for generating money and/or popularity on variety and talk shows.

Lately I have been saturated by Korean celebrities and their antics. After much viewing I have come to the conclusion that there is no 4th wall between fans and their favourite celebrities in the Korean entertainment industry. Celebrities are very open on television; embarrassing experiences are shared, sob stories come out, and an idea of their real personalities shines through. Stars share and let their vulnerabilities show, and fans latch on those moments with ferocity, creating a connection between them and their favourite celebrities.

There is a sense self-awareness on the parts of most celebrities, especially boy bands where the norm is to hug, pretend kisses (from certain angles they seem to be honestly going for it), and basically attempting to get fans (predominantly female) to scream out their little hearts. An example; Dong Bang Shin Ki parodied a scenario of a m/m fanfic about them in a short drama series, couple talks has been filmed and delivered in their official DVD release (they go so far as to use fan created acronym/shortened names to describe different couples). Super Junior members play kissing games with one another, pretend to kiss on national television, and fool around like romantic couples on camera. They know what they are doing, and they know there are fan followings based on a perceived closeness on the part of the fans, and they play it up to drive their fans to a near frenzy.

Both sides are quite aware of this; the Korean celebrities entertain their fans, love their fans, attempt to be truthful to their fans, and in turn their Korean fans love them, protect them and are the most organised and obsessive fans on Earth. There is a level of organisation on the part of the Korean official fan clubs that borders on the militaristic; presents for celebrities reaching 10s of thousand dollars, fan meetings that are regimented with booklets and schedules that your average OCD/perfectionist would kill to obtain, and a level of dedication to their icons that most dictators in the world would sell their soul for.

It is absolutely fascinating how differently the 4th wall is treated by western and eastern fans. I’d love to hear some feedback from people who are involved in RPS in both a eastern and western fandom.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah, I find it very weird that no one interested in these matters has gone out and studied Kpop or Jpop fandoms on this, because they would provide such an interesting show of where this *might* go and what happens to fandoms if things do go much farther.

This is going to sound really harsh, but slash fandoms, by which I mean western slash fandoms, generally, has a tendency to ignore anything that is not produced in an English speaking country. I think of them as "blinkers" against anything that does not have an English based origin. Most of them don't seem to even realise they exist, and those who do think they exist doesn't perceive it as an active fandom, or anything they can learn from.

In my worst moments I see it as a form of racism though that is not the right word, then again what do you call it when Kpop and Jpop, which are definitely not western, are completely ignored. I'm really not doing a good job at conveying what I'm trying to say here.

It is like a culture blind spot. No other entertainment culture exist but the western one.

I'll need to think about this a bit more.

Hmm, maybe that could be... I'm not so sure. For many fans, they're not so interested in the theory, so one doesn't expect them to be concerned with anything outside of their fandoms. However, I would expect the ones interested in the theoretical questions wouldn't mind going farther afield for more informaiton/data... Plus there's the language barrier, I guess.

I'm not so sure. Neither am I. It could easily be a case of laziness, I tend to forget how I disregard language barriers if it is something I really like. I'm quite obsessive that way.

I would expect the ones interested in the theoretical questions wouldn't mind going farther afield for more informaiton/data I agree with you on this one, yet there seems to be a very distinctive line between eastern fandom and western fandom, which confuse me. Academics seem to be very specific when it comes to fandom, it will be interesting to see where it goes in the future.

Ahahah, myself as well. I've spent a lot of times staring at things that I can barely understand. In the case of Japanese, it's paid off. XD

It does confuse me as well. Maybe, though, there is equally a line between English language and other languages? Or heck, people didn't even know about older fandoms where there were very close relationships between fans and creators/actors.

Q: What do you call someone who speaks many langauges?
A: A polyglot.

Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
A: Bilingual.

Q: What do you call someone who speaks one language?
A: American.

It's not exactly "racism," it's, umm... "linguism." (Hey look, new word!) If it's not in English, it probably doesn't exist, and if it does, it can't be as good as it would be in English, and if it is, why don't they translate it to English already, like all great works of art & literature?

With all the nice circular reasoning that goes with any -ism: I don't pay attention to non-English stuff because they don't show it on TV, because people aren't interested in it, because they don't show it...

"linguism." I like it.

With all the nice circular reasoning that goes with any -ism: I don't pay attention to non-English stuff because they don't show it on TV, because people aren't interested in it, because they don't show it...

I see where you are going with this, and it actually explains a lot about people in general. I admit I didn't even think of it as I watch/read anything as long as it is entertaining. If I don't know the language I try to hunt down a summary of it in a language I do know. If that fails I pester friends who do know the language to translate for me. In that regards I tend to be fairly obsessive. Mind you I didn’t watch western (English-spoken) television for a period of 3 to 4 years so that may have contributed a bit.

Argh, that's kind of sad. But perhaps they'd meta more if they knew more about the bands of non-English-speaking countries? It's hard to overcome the language barrier. So the more English-speaking fans that pipe up with info about Korean, Chinese, Thai, Japanese, German, etc, bands, the more they'll take notice.

Thanks for this post. It was interesting, especially since I know so little about the Korean band scene.

That's what I'm hoping; the language barrier is something truly difficult to cross. In the mean time I shall continue to post about my Korean pop bands!

Ohh, Korean boy bands are insanely fun and talented (if not at singing than at the very least exceptional entertainers). I love them to bits because all of them got to where they are through hard work and dedication, and most of them are really nice people.

And the crack, never forget the crack

Personally, I find a lot of the traditional conventions of yaoi pretty homophobic and sexist. And I don't particularly enjoy jpop or most manga art, although I enjoy other styles of Japanese music and art (less fandom-creating ones, however). If I could read Chinese, I'd probably be a big fan of wuxia novels.

I'm sure there are yaoi fandoms that aren't saturated with dominant/submissive dynamics and weepy ukes, but I personally don't have the energy to go looking for them. I don't think it's racist to prefer to avoid fandoms where stereotypes are held up as ideals.

I don't read Western romance novels much, either, for much the same reason.

I don't think it's racist to prefer to avoid fandoms where stereotypes are held up as ideals.

Fair enough, as I said in reply to

worldserpent, if could just be a case of laziness. And I definitely agree with you when it comes to avoiding fandoms that are not to your taste.

Your comments remind me of a really interesting conversation I read a few years ago, when

ponderosa121 still had her LJ. She made a post about power dynamics in yaoi and invited discussion on the topic. Her main argument was that yaoi isn't really yaoi unless it has a certain Dominant/submissive quality to the work. She said that yaoi stories that lacked this quality were actually "slashified yaoi" stories, aka they had Westernized concepts of gay sex. I wish I could read the post again, it was really interesting (especially since one or two male yaoi fans joined in on the conversation).

I can understand why yaoi wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea...since D/s isn't everyone's cup of tea. Me personally? I have no problem with it, because I love reading stories that involve power dynamics and sex.

Also, there are certain manga authors that are well-known for not following traditional yaoi formulas. Naono Bohra sometimes panders to the old demographics, but the way she draws mens' bodies is far more realistic than some of the stylized "bishounen" types you usually see. I've also recently discovered Saiki Keita, a male artist who creates both yaoi and hentai manga. I've only read a couple of his yaoi stories, but they don't seem to follow the old formulas at all.

Ohhh. I remember that post on ponderosa121's journal. It was fascinating because it reflected a lot of my own thoughts. I know exactly what I’m getting into when I pick up a yaoi title, and it is probably one of the reasons why I have stopped following BL titles (still in love with shounen) and started reading more slash.

Naono Bohra is probably one of my all time favourite yaoi managaka, for all the reasons you listed. I must check out this Saiki Keita.

I had a discussion once with a slash fan on this topic, and what

the_raddy talks about above was pretty much the argument that I made: not so much that the essential quality of yaoi/BL is D/s, but that in the BL worldview (which I think equates to the Japanese or pan-Asian worldview) any relationship inherently implies a power dynamic and the negotiation thereof, and it would just be baffling to ignore it and pretend the two people in the relationship are "equal" in everything that they do/are. There is an observation made in cultural studies, that the polite fiction of American society is "we are all equal" even if we're not, and the polite fiction of Japanese society is "you are above me" even if this is not the case; but in both cases these are simply that - fictions.

In fact, this means that two people - one a slash fan, the other a BL fan - can read the same story and perceive it differently. The first will see a couple negotiating their relationship with the understanding that they are ultimately equal-but-different; the second will see a couple negotiating with the understanding that one will ultimately have more leverage over the relationship in some ways, the other will have more leverage in other, complementary ways. I.e. the power dynamic isn't as simple as seme = dominant = powerful = manly, uke = submissive = powerless = weepy/effeminate; in the vast majority of cases where the writing is good, I would venture to say the negotiation is far more complex than that.

I don't agree that BL holds up stereotypes as ideals, either. ^^; It is a product of a different culture, and sexual relations (heterosexual and homosexual) in Japan are codified in such a way that BL is actually reversing/toying with/deconstructing many of said stereotypes. (

supacat had a great post about this recently that she locked after it was unfortunately slashdotted.)

THANK YOU FOR THIS COMMENT!

It's fascinating how slash and yaoi deconstruct "normal" sexual scenarios in such different ways. I think many slash writers are often aggravated with the way hetrosexual characters and relationships are portrayed in film/TV/literature...so they try to "fix" the heteronormal flaws of these straight male characters by putting them in a gay relationship, thus tipping the balances. On the other hand, yaoi seems to be a kind of "revenge" on Japanese men -- here their sex is exploited for the enjoyment of women, in the same way Japanese women have been exploited for years in hentai and even in your run-of-the-mill anime. Yaoi seems to have a common theme of "make the pretty boy suffer, so his gay lover can make it better, and we'll watch and cheer," and you don't find that nearly as much in slash.

I don't think there ever was a fourth wall in the sliver of RPSdom I currently inhabit, let alone a crumbling one, and it's pretty Western. ^^; As I see it people just fail to mentally take into account stuff they know nothing about when they draw up their theories (which is fair and why a discussion is necessary).

Ohh, and what fandom is that? *Curious*. I'm finding some of my RPS fandoms are going through certain growing pains, the tinhats are still there but many people are getting worried about the actors finding out.

Very true!

Teh Libertines I guess (which also peripherally encompasses a whole bunch of other British indie bands). If you read up on them - music reviews and such - it will say something like "they pioneered the erasure of boundaries between performers and fans". In practice this meant a (deadly) combination of Internet savvy, exhibitionism, suggestibility, compulsive mendacity and outright crazy on the part of the band, and the simultaneous discovery on the part of the press that reinventing a relatively respectable music weekly as a slash zine boosted its circulation. It is not tinhat to claim that Pete and Carl were In Love(tm) because that is accepted trufax, though it's hard to tell if it was the band who convinced the fangirls who convinced the media who convinced the rest of the nation, or if it happened in some other order. Possibly it was the media who convinced the fangirls and the band, who then convinced the rest of the nation by writing breakup duets in which they sing "all you do is make me cry / I'm still in love with you".

It may be tinhat to suggest, as

dipping_sauce did when I explained this to her, that the whole thing is made up and thus not technically RPS at all. XD;;

a (deadly) combination of Internet savvy, exhibitionism, suggestibility, compulsive mendacity and outright crazy on the part of the band, and the simultaneous discovery on the part of the press that reinventing a relatively respectable music weekly as a slash zine boosted its circulation.

EEEEE! Sounds like Korean pop bands! One of the things I'm inevitably coming to accept is that there are no tinhats, just how much 'service' is provided for the fans.

it was the media who convinced the fangirls and the band,

That is all kind of cool, as for the break up I take it there are rivers of fanfiction dedicated to it?

Dude, it is RPS, especially if the British ~~tabloid~~ is talking about it. It has to be TRUFAX!

As much fanfiction as there's water in the Thames. Much of it is locked, understandably as Pete Doherty already has a regrettable tendency to claim in interviews that he used to be a rentboy**; he doesn't need the encouragement. =_= There's also a crapload of AUs that are more gorgeous SSBB stories than anything else. Can scrounge up some links if you like.

The press was all about the saabisu (I particularly liked that one "collectible" double issue the NME did with them looking sad and lonely on separate covers and the teaser text was like, PETE I LOVE YOU ALWAYS PLEASE COME HOME), the band was... serious. Well, the problems that caused the breakup were serious. And took place between two dudes whose idea of the type of interaction prevalent between straight BFFs is seriously b0rked.

TRUFAX: a journalist in France wrote an actual novel about them (1st person, Carl POV). Because in France you can publish as much RPF as you like as long as you state clearly on the cover that it's fiction.

** Probably untrue. Like 90% probability.

(eg., and this was the example originally provided me, when you are a dude and your BFF who is also a dude gives you a ring as a sign of yr sempiternal love for each other, you do not normally wear it on yr wedding finger)

AHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG. This is priceless.

You do realise now I have to go and google them and figure out why they broke up? (All that dirty speculation and so forth).

You have enticed me to the point that I would indeed love some links to fics.

Oh gods, I want to move to French (or at the very least lean the language. The idea of published RPS makes smile.)

Sabina!!!

Carl and Pete are in a destructive shoujo/BL relationship! There is drugs, angst, jealousy and ~~possibility of~~ sex! It is like crack at its bestest.

It honestly read like shoujo manga plot. I'm highly amused.

Yeah, pretty much - I'm not joking when I say it's the Mirage of Blaze of bandslash. >_>

Are you reading the Wikipedia entry? ^^; The stuff that's not as well known and that you sort of have to piece together is even nuttier. Eg. the second time Pete was arrested, the "offensive weapon" was a switchblade he'd bought for Carl as a souvenir from Thailand. Because Carl likes... to carry... illegal... knife... things.

Also he had this scrapbook that was filled with pictures of Carl + bits of poetry. WHICH WAS THEN SCANNED AND UPLOADED TO THE INTERNET. Basically I could go on and on, it's an endless parade of melodrama Ozaki Minami would be ashamed of.

it's the Mirage of Blaze of bandslash. >_> The whole thing is absolutely hilarious. Except it becomes more and more disturbing when you realise that they are real rather than a plot to a manga series.

Yes, I am indeed reading their wiki entry. In regards to the knife... OMFG! Where is the S&M slash fics?!

with pictures of Carl + bits of poetry. WHICH WAS THEN SCANNED AND UPLOADED TO THE INTERNET.

You are lying! You must be! This must be what hitting gold feels like. I CANNOT stop cackling, the whole thing is completely over the top almost to the level of caricature. Considering Pete seem to have a drug problem and is all obsessive about Carl I think it is pretty safe somewhere in an apartment Minami is considering suing for copyright.

Sabina, these guys are too much to be real. No wonder there is published RPS about them.

I'm totes not lying; I don't have to make up a thing. >_> Pete Doherty kept a series of scrapbooks-cum-diaries for the past decade (is still keeping them in fact; was last seen going into Amy Winehouse's flat with one under his arm). They're called, um, the Books of Albion. There's actually a print version which is condensed and edited and has - I'm kind of assuming - the indiscreet bits taken out. However 1) a whole bunch of them are scanned and available mostly uncensored on the Internet for download, and 2) although there is thus a crapload of HILARITY available for the taking, they have been ignored by the mainstream and tabloid media who can't be arsed to decipher the dude's handwriting.

The particular tome in question** was made by pasting photos of Carl and poetry clippings over a coffee table book on the sex appeal of movie stars. It also contained naked pictures of Pete's ~~other~~ girlfriends, not to mention naked pictures of Pete himself. As typical of yr avg online wank magnet, after a few months he thought better of it and ~~locked the entry~~ took it down. That worked as well as could be expected.

I'll, uh, put fic links in another comment and delete it after (as aforementioned a lot of them are locked). The oddest thing about the entire affair is that it appears to be slowly staggering its way to something resembling a heartwarming denouement. Of course, with the way they live they'll both be dead before the age of 50, but hopefully by then I'd've found something better to do with my time. XD;

** Title: "The Fragility of Openness". I only wish I had the imagination to make this shit up.

I. Cannot. Stop. Laughing.

For some reason I'm not really all that surprised he knows Amy Winehouse.

"The Fragility of Openness" - I'm dying of laughter here. Now I want someone to write a novel based on the premise of their relationship.

I shall await for the fic links. From what I have read of them and what you have said I have to agree with you on them being dead before 50.

Just when I think fandom is full of crack RL provide me more and better stuff.

One thing I have learnt from all this is that ALL famous British people know each other. And most of them have slept with each other. >_> In the case of Amy Winehouse and Pete Doherty they're purportedly writing and recording songs together, which has the potential for awesomeness as long as the obvious disasters-in-the-making don't occur. This may not have come through very well in my screed of long pent-up sarcasm but I actually think these people make some great music. XD;

Fics sent; I apologize for the amount of time you're going to waste if you actually read them. XD;

They do don't they? My brain went splat when I found the clip of Jonathan Ross snogging Neil Gaiman. It always amuse me how all the famous British people have this really awesome sense of humour. Amy + Pete = AWESOME OTP! It will be like the het relationship that NEED to be OVERCOME in ORDER for TRUE LOVE to happen! I do like some of Amy W's music, have not head much of Pete Doherty, will ratify soon.

Have received. I suspect I'll be reading some of them tonight.

Het relationship: no, see, that was Kate Moss. TRUFAX. With Amy I just pray they don't sleep together so her husband doesn't, like, kill Peter when he gets out of prison.

Oh, I guess if you want Libertines songs I have a couple up. XD;;

Death on the Stairs (Bernard Butler version) (http://www.kekkai.org/sabina/080406/The%20Libertines%20-%20Death%20on%20the%20Stairs.mp3)
What Katie Did (http://www.kekkai.org/sabina/080406/The%20Libertines%20-%20What%20Katie%20Did.mp3)

Speaking of Jonathan Ross here is the first time Pete was actually on his show, it's kind of classic: 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUp6u2DHjxA) | 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Blc-h5TJA)

Kate Moss - oh gods, this just gets more and more convoluted. Amy's husband does seem like a nutcase. Well, Carl could always come and save Pete.

You are such an enabler.

I remember seeing the interview but not taking notice because I had no idea who Pete Doherty was.

Kate Moss turned the Pete Doherty circus from an indiekid's soap opera to a 24/7 national tabloid drama. =_= They very nearly got married - Pete asked Carl to be best man, which was kind of epic all things considered.

...Much like MoB, this is not actually a fun fandom if you make the mistake of getting emotionally invested to any extent. Like, dude is apparently going back to jail for violating parole. Breaking news as of today. ^^;;;

The songs were supposed to go in my next mp3 post anyway, I just don't have the time to write blurbs these days. ^^; (Actually, as long as I'm telling this fandom's outrageous TRUFAX stories I should mention that during periods when they are not-talking, Pete and Carl send sekrit msgs to each other via song lyrics. ...Which makes it not actually sekrit, but logic isn't anyone's forte here. I particularly enjoyed the time Pete got a single into the UK Top 10 with the immortal bridge "in case you're listening to the radio / I hope you know you broke my heart".)

Pete asked Carl to be best man AHAHAHAHA! It is like a million RPS where one of the OTPs gets a beard/married, and there is often ANGRY last swing sex!

Oh, the drama.

I'm going into it for the fics and the melodrama. Emotional investments seem very likely detrimental to one's health with the drugs, the police and so forth. Though the Rolling Stones are still alive, so maybe there's hope for them yet.

"in case you're listening to the radio / I hope you know you broke my heart".

THAT'S AWESOME! OMFG! THEY ARE IN LOVE! TRUFAX!

(I haven't had chance to listen to their music or read the fics yet. I'm hoping I'll get some time over the weekend to enjoy them to the fullest.)

See, 95% of the time when I listen to music I don't really pay attention to the lyrics. So every once in a while as I listen to this stuff I'm... surprised. orz Granted a lot of these songs they wrote about each other to begin with but sometimes they repurpose the ones they wrote for ex-gfs by ninja-changing identifying details. Like eye colour.

Have my sister's linklist (http://joliefolie.livejournal.com/105513.html) while you're at it, if you need refs. And I posted a Dr. Who link on my LJ you may be interested in. XD

P.S. In case you haven't discovered this Pete and Carl are currently, um... writing a musical together. This taxes even my suspension of disbelief but it appears to be trufax nonetheless.

You make good points. I'm not familiar with Korea as much as Japan, but the level of fan service in Japan is so high and the fans seem much more open about it. For example, I used to buy a shitload of teen magazines like Potato, Duet, Wink Up, Myojo, etc. and they all had a section where readers sent in postcards with drawings on them. A lot of the drawings were of just one guy or a whole group, but there were a lot of slashy/couple-y drawings, too, and that was totally normal. These are mainstream magazines targeted at young teens. Of course the photoshoots in the magazines are often highly slashy as well. Then you have the rockers doing their stage gay.

So when I see western bands gaying it up, my first thought is not "omg they're really a couple!" it's "fan service", which definitely does not seem to be the common mindset in western fandoms. They seem to take it as being a sign of something real.

I'm on the fringes of Jpop, but even with the minimal exposure I get I can tell that the Jpop scene is very geared towards "fan sevice". Being a fangirl about slash in all its forms I whole-heartedly approve of this fan-service and I'm often saddened by my western fandoms where slashy photo opportunities are so rare.

my first thought is not "omg they're really a couple!" it's "fan service" Exactly! I'm all about the "fan service", and it throws me a bit when people actually think they are a couple or that the celebrities would take offense at reading RPS. I mean, it is made up.

I lived in Japan for seven years, and was part of the "Indies Visual Kei"* scene in and around Tokyo for most of that.

I would have to say that within that fandom, or my experience of it at least, the 4th wall not only didn't exist, but would have been discouraged if it had started to appear (I left Tokyo in 2004, I wouldn't want to try to comment on it now).

I have very vivid memories of a certain vocalist wanting me to explain/summarize/display in stick figures if I didn't know the correct vocabulary something I was writing that involved the two guitarists in his band. His biggest complaint? That I had never written about him! (He was, as far as I know, rather straight.)

**Small unsigned bands of ビジュアル系. Most of the bands that I followed/saw have now disappeared. The only notable exception to that would be D'espairsRay, and unfortunately I can't claim to have discussed anything like this with them =)

'Visual Kei' was my first proper introduction to the wonders of RPS. They will forever hold a special place in my heart.

His biggest complaint? That I had never written about him! (He was, as far as I know, rather straight.)

EXACTLY! It is almost the same case in regards to Kpop bands. It almost seems as if there is a certain level of pride involved in being drawn/written about in a RPS fic. Rather than embarrassed most of them find it 1)hilarious, or 2) a proof of their popularity. The more fangirls scream about them, draw them, write about them, the more they put on a show. It is like the circle that feed on each other, and it is such a symbiotic relationship.

**This is when tinhats comes into play. :D

I'm not into RPS (yet) but I absolutely love how there's little to no 4th wall in some of the Japanese doramas I've seen (in which actors will comment on their own performances or those of their castmates or speculate about the sequel.)

It kind of makes the whole thing meta, I guess. The actors are in on the joke and they want the audience to know they are--which I like, but I'm pretty sure most fans would hate that sort of thing in Western TV shows.

there's little to no 4th wall in some of the Japanese doramas. Same thing occurs in the Japanese music scene as well as the seiyuu members. With Kpop groups, band members want to be coupled with other members, and want there to be fanfiction and fanart about them. It is almost a sign of their popularity or something.

I had this discussion with a friend awhile back focusing on how the Asian entertainment industry is completely focused on entertaining. There are singers with no singing talent but are amazing dancers and hosts for shows, or actors who are terrible actors but are talented in singing or dancing, and they are popular either way because they are not actors or singers so much as entertainers. Jpop (I have not being in the Jpop scene for awhile so take everything with a bit of salt) is all about entertaining their fans, whether this is through fan service or actual concerts, the point is they are putting on a show to entertain. Kpop and most other Asian entertainments industries share that similarity.

Singers become actors, and actors become singers, or they are both at the same time. The odd one out is the one who hasn’t filmed several films/drama series and released several albums. And I think this desire to entertain can easily fall into providing fan service to make fans happy. I think.

I've never been much into bandom, whether western or not, so this doesn't necessarily apply to me though I do enjoy reading about the meta involved. I am however into sports fandom (NFL, MLB, NBA RPS) and there is definitely a 4th wall. While the athletes are fine with hugs and jumping into each other's arms on the field, or saying they're on a honeymoon with each other (Alex Rodriguez concerning him and Derek Jeter), I don't think they know of the slash written about them. I don't think I want them to know about it either, to be honest.

Do you know if athletes in Asia know about the RPS written about them, if there is RPS written about them?

I know that soccer seem to have a huge RPS following; both western and eastern. I'm unsure of the sport stars reactions to RPS, but I do recall m/m doujinshi (fan-created comics) were produced during the last 2 world cups containing some of the famous JLeague players. They were apparently very popular.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Cutlural Differences in the 4th Wall

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Language barrier is *big*

Re: Language barrier is *big*

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Language barrier is big

Re: Language barrier is big