Cutlural Differences in the 4th Wall

[naanima]

Interesting meta post titled - The Long-Delayed Fourth Wall Meta. It discusses the crumbling 4th wall between fans and celebrities, and the possible repercussions of this disappearing wall.

As I said in my comment I find this topic unbelievably fascinating because this concern for the crumbling of the 4th wall seems to be a very western concept. Asian pop culture pander to their fans to the point that there don't seem to be an existence of the 4th wall; pop artists purposely play up the popular 'couples' within bands for their fans, fanfic and the love of m/m couples are so well known that they are often exploited for generating money and/or popularity on variety and talk shows.

Lately I have been saturated by Korean celebrities and their antics. After much viewing I have come to the conclusion that there is no 4th wall between fans and their favourite celebrities in the Korean entertainment industry. Celebrities are very open on television; embarrassing experiences are shared, sob stories come out, and an idea of their real personalities shines through. Stars share and let their vulnerabilities show, and fans latch on those moments with ferocity, creating a connection between them and their favourite celebrities.

There is a sense self-awareness on the parts of most celebrities, especially boy bands where the norm is to hug, pretend kisses (from certain angles they seem to be honestly going for it), and basically attempting to get fans (predominantly female) to scream out their little hearts. An example; Dong Bang Shin Ki parodied a scenario of a m/m fanfic about them in a short drama series, couple talks has been filmed and delivered in their official DVD release (they go so far as to use fan created acronym/shortened names to describe different couples). Super Junior members play kissing games with one another, pretend to kiss on national television, and fool around like romantic couples on camera. They know what they are doing, and they know there are fan followings based on a perceived closeness on the part of the fans, and they play it up to drive their fans to a near frenzy.

Both sides are quite aware of this; the Korean celebrities entertain their fans, love their fans, attempt to be truthful to their fans, and in turn their Korean fans love them, protect them and are the most organised and obsessive fans on Earth. There is a level of organisation on the part of the Korean official fan clubs that borders on the militaristic; presents for celebrities reaching 10s of thousand dollars, fan meetings that are regimented with booklets and schedules that your average OCD/perfectionist would kill to obtain, and a level of dedication to their icons that most dictators in the world would sell their soul for.

It is absolutely fascinating how differently the 4th wall is treated by western and eastern fans. I’d love to hear some feedback from people who are involved in RPS in both a eastern and western fandom.

Comments

[naanima.livejournal.com]

a (deadly) combination of Internet savvy, exhibitionism, suggestibility, compulsive mendacity and outright crazy on the part of the band, and the simultaneous discovery on the part of the press that reinventing a relatively respectable music weekly as a slash zine boosted its circulation.

EEEEE! Sounds like Korean pop bands! One of the things I'm inevitably coming to accept is that there are no tinhats, just how much 'service' is provided for the fans.

it was the media who convinced the fangirls and the band,

That is all kind of cool, as for the break up I take it there are rivers of fanfiction dedicated to it?

Dude, it is RPS, especially if the British tabloid is talking about it. It has to be TRUFAX!

[petronia.livejournal.com]

As much fanfiction as there's water in the Thames. Much of it is locked, understandably as Pete Doherty already has a regrettable tendency to claim in interviews that he used to be a rentboy**; he doesn't need the encouragement. =_= There's also a crapload of AUs that are more gorgeous SSBB stories than anything else. Can scrounge up some links if you like.

The press was all about the saabisu (I particularly liked that one "collectible" double issue the NME did with them looking sad and lonely on separate covers and the teaser text was like, PETE I LOVE YOU ALWAYS PLEASE COME HOME), the band was... serious. Well, the problems that caused the breakup were serious. And took place between two dudes whose idea of the type of interaction prevalent between straight BFFs is seriously b0rked.

TRUFAX: a journalist in France wrote an actual novel about them (1st person, Carl POV). Because in France you can publish as much RPF as you like as long as you state clearly on the cover that it's fiction.



** Probably untrue. Like 90% probability.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

(eg., and this was the example originally provided me, when you are a dude and your BFF who is also a dude gives you a ring as a sign of yr sempiternal love for each other, you do not normally wear it on yr wedding finger)

[naanima.livejournal.com]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA! OMG. This is priceless.

You do realise now I have to go and google them and figure out why they broke up? (All that dirty speculation and so forth).

You have enticed me to the point that I would indeed love some links to fics.

Oh gods, I want to move to French (or at the very least lean the language. The idea of published RPS makes smile.)

[naanima.livejournal.com]

Sabina!!!

Carl and Pete are in a destructive shoujo/BL relationship! There is drugs, angst, jealousy and possibility of sex! It is like crack at its bestest.

It honestly read like shoujo manga plot. I'm highly amused.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, pretty much - I'm not joking when I say it's the Mirage of Blaze of bandslash. >_>

Are you reading the Wikipedia entry? ^^; The stuff that's not as well known and that you sort of have to piece together is even nuttier. Eg. the second time Pete was arrested, the "offensive weapon" was a switchblade he'd bought for Carl as a souvenir from Thailand. Because Carl likes... to carry... illegal... knife... things.

Also he had this scrapbook that was filled with pictures of Carl + bits of poetry. WHICH WAS THEN SCANNED AND UPLOADED TO THE INTERNET. Basically I could go on and on, it's an endless parade of melodrama Ozaki Minami would be ashamed of.

[naanima.livejournal.com]

it's the Mirage of Blaze of bandslash. >_> The whole thing is absolutely hilarious. Except it becomes more and more disturbing when you realise that they are real rather than a plot to a manga series.

Yes, I am indeed reading their wiki entry. In regards to the knife... OMFG! Where is the S&M slash fics?!

with pictures of Carl + bits of poetry. WHICH WAS THEN SCANNED AND UPLOADED TO THE INTERNET.

You are lying! You must be! This must be what hitting gold feels like. I CANNOT stop cackling, the whole thing is completely over the top almost to the level of caricature. Considering Pete seem to have a drug problem and is all obsessive about Carl I think it is pretty safe somewhere in an apartment Minami is considering suing for copyright.

Sabina, these guys are too much to be real. No wonder there is published RPS about them.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

I'm totes not lying; I don't have to make up a thing. >_> Pete Doherty kept a series of scrapbooks-cum-diaries for the past decade (is still keeping them in fact; was last seen going into Amy Winehouse's flat with one under his arm). They're called, um, the Books of Albion. There's actually a print version which is condensed and edited and has - I'm kind of assuming - the indiscreet bits taken out. However 1) a whole bunch of them are scanned and available mostly uncensored on the Internet for download, and 2) although there is thus a crapload of HILARITY available for the taking, they have been ignored by the mainstream and tabloid media who can't be arsed to decipher the dude's handwriting.

The particular tome in question** was made by pasting photos of Carl and poetry clippings over a coffee table book on the sex appeal of movie stars. It also contained naked pictures of Pete's other girlfriends, not to mention naked pictures of Pete himself. As typical of yr avg online wank magnet, after a few months he thought better of it and locked the entry took it down. That worked as well as could be expected.

I'll, uh, put fic links in another comment and delete it after (as aforementioned a lot of them are locked). The oddest thing about the entire affair is that it appears to be slowly staggering its way to something resembling a heartwarming denouement. Of course, with the way they live they'll both be dead before the age of 50, but hopefully by then I'd've found something better to do with my time. XD;



** Title: "The Fragility of Openness". I only wish I had the imagination to make this shit up.

[naanima.livejournal.com]

I. Cannot. Stop. Laughing.

For some reason I'm not really all that surprised he knows Amy Winehouse.

"The Fragility of Openness" - I'm dying of laughter here. Now I want someone to write a novel based on the premise of their relationship.

I shall await for the fic links. From what I have read of them and what you have said I have to agree with you on them being dead before 50.

Just when I think fandom is full of crack RL provide me more and better stuff.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

One thing I have learnt from all this is that ALL famous British people know each other. And most of them have slept with each other. >_> In the case of Amy Winehouse and Pete Doherty they're purportedly writing and recording songs together, which has the potential for awesomeness as long as the obvious disasters-in-the-making don't occur. This may not have come through very well in my screed of long pent-up sarcasm but I actually think these people make some great music. XD;

Fics sent; I apologize for the amount of time you're going to waste if you actually read them. XD;

[naanima.livejournal.com]

They do don't they? My brain went splat when I found the clip of Jonathan Ross snogging Neil Gaiman. It always amuse me how all the famous British people have this really awesome sense of humour. Amy + Pete = AWESOME OTP! It will be like the het relationship that NEED to be OVERCOME in ORDER for TRUE LOVE to happen! I do like some of Amy W's music, have not head much of Pete Doherty, will ratify soon.

Have received. I suspect I'll be reading some of them tonight.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Het relationship: no, see, that was Kate Moss. TRUFAX. With Amy I just pray they don't sleep together so her husband doesn't, like, kill Peter when he gets out of prison.

Oh, I guess if you want Libertines songs I have a couple up. XD;;

Death on the Stairs (Bernard Butler version) (http://www.kekkai.org/sabina/080406/The%20Libertines%20-%20Death%20on%20the%20Stairs.mp3)
What Katie Did (http://www.kekkai.org/sabina/080406/The%20Libertines%20-%20What%20Katie%20Did.mp3)

Speaking of Jonathan Ross here is the first time Pete was actually on his show, it's kind of classic: 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUp6u2DHjxA) | 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Blc-h5TJA)

[naanima.livejournal.com]

Kate Moss - oh gods, this just gets more and more convoluted. Amy's husband does seem like a nutcase. Well, Carl could always come and save Pete.

You are such an enabler.

I remember seeing the interview but not taking notice because I had no idea who Pete Doherty was.

[petronia.livejournal.com]

Kate Moss turned the Pete Doherty circus from an indiekid's soap opera to a 24/7 national tabloid drama. =_= They very nearly got married - Pete asked Carl to be best man, which was kind of epic all things considered.

...Much like MoB, this is not actually a fun fandom if you make the mistake of getting emotionally invested to any extent. Like, dude is apparently going back to jail for violating parole. Breaking news as of today. ^^;;;

The songs were supposed to go in my next mp3 post anyway, I just don't have the time to write blurbs these days. ^^; (Actually, as long as I'm telling this fandom's outrageous TRUFAX stories I should mention that during periods when they are not-talking, Pete and Carl send sekrit msgs to each other via song lyrics. ...Which makes it not actually sekrit, but logic isn't anyone's forte here. I particularly enjoyed the time Pete got a single into the UK Top 10 with the immortal bridge "in case you're listening to the radio / I hope you know you broke my heart".)

[naanima.livejournal.com]

Pete asked Carl to be best man AHAHAHAHA! It is like a million RPS where one of the OTPs gets a beard/married, and there is often ANGRY last swing sex!

Oh, the drama.

I'm going into it for the fics and the melodrama. Emotional investments seem very likely detrimental to one's health with the drugs, the police and so forth. Though the Rolling Stones are still alive, so maybe there's hope for them yet.

"in case you're listening to the radio / I hope you know you broke my heart".

THAT'S AWESOME! OMFG! THEY ARE IN LOVE! TRUFAX!

(I haven't had chance to listen to their music or read the fics yet. I'm hoping I'll get some time over the weekend to enjoy them to the fullest.)

[petronia.livejournal.com]

See, 95% of the time when I listen to music I don't really pay attention to the lyrics. So every once in a while as I listen to this stuff I'm... surprised. orz Granted a lot of these songs they wrote about each other to begin with but sometimes they repurpose the ones they wrote for ex-gfs by ninja-changing identifying details. Like eye colour.

Have my sister's linklist (http://joliefolie.livejournal.com/105513.html) while you're at it, if you need refs. And I posted a Dr. Who link on my LJ you may be interested in. XD

[petronia.livejournal.com]

P.S. In case you haven't discovered this Pete and Carl are currently, um... writing a musical together. This taxes even my suspension of disbelief but it appears to be trufax nonetheless.