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Meta & Being Female is Unhealthy.

  • Apr. 21st, 2009 at 11:33 AM
naanima: ([SPN] Where it all began)
Testing out the new crossposting capabilities of dw.

A few meta-ish thoughts; I’m not a contributor to fandom, at least not in the ways of fanfiction, fanart or other fan-activities. I do reviews, I meta and I squee, but mostly I consume fan-products; fics, arts, music-mixes and so forth. Even then I don’t do these activities with much discipline as my attention span is like that of a gnat. Sparkly things will distract me, and if a show becomes ‘bad’ or becomes something I no long care about I tend to stop talking about it all together. This is a bit of a double-edged sword; on the one hand it means I don’t get caught up in wank and have a much saner outlook on fandom (LAUGH people, laugh, we READ porn about FICTIONAL people, how can we take it seriously?), however, it also means I don’t have the social capital (thank you [personal profile] charmian) to influence others into my way of thinking (I like to be right, being wrong ruffles my feathers, I’m trying to change that) or to even discuss my pet-theories because no one knows me. Thank gods I have RL people to blather to.

Anyways, my next fannish/meta-ish thought, the one I have had since Dear Awesome Bela was killed, and Castiel became the new bicycle for the SPN slash fandom. To put into context (post via [personal profile] fools_game... I wonder how the user name tag will crosspost), when Misha Collins was asked why he thinks certain guest-stars are more popular than others.

"It's because I'm not female."

And with that I’m going to go and have some lunch.

Comments

waldorph: (writing)
[personal profile] waldorph wrote:
Apr. 21st, 2009 06:24 am (UTC)
Well...that makes you wince, doesn't it? I think this conversation turned to wank a while ago in fandom, but as a hangover from bitter talks in the SGA fandom about this issue- I sort of wonder how it would change with the writers- are the writers better at/more comfortable with male characters?

That doesn't excuse or take away from the truth of Misha's statement... I just wonder (*clears throat* and I never liked Bela, but I like Anna, so....I don't really know where that puts me except hiding under my bed from the potential wank).

Wow this comment got long. Sorry!
naanima: ([SPN] John is weary)
[personal profile] naanima wrote:
Apr. 21st, 2009 06:41 am (UTC)
I think... I think there are a lot of writers out there who are not aware of how they are portraying women, and some writer who know but just don't care. I think about the differences in the way women are portrayed between TSCC and SPN, and I accept the fact that SPN have a very particular view on women that while can be entertaining is not what I identify with, which is fine. I can understand the lack of women in SPN, the series is focused on men, hell, and it is focused on two brothers and not the women of their lives. This is fine, this is acceptable, I don't even mind. Even the way they wrote out Bela didn't irritate so much. What made highly uncomfortable and even a b it angry is the way many of the SPN fandom was out for her blood (actually, hers and Ruby's) even before they saw them in action.

My main issue, the one thing that makes me highly uncomfortable is the way SPN fandom tend to detest all female characters who potentially have any form of chemistry with the boys. I’m not saying all of fandom, I’m just saying the loudest contingent seem to be filled with quite a bit of hate. I liked Bela, I think she had potential, but that is a personal like for a particular character-type, I look at her and I look at people’s reaction to her, and I ask myself one simple question, if she had been a he would Bela’s character still had been so detested? The answer made me kind of depressed. It is like I look at Castiel, whom I don’t hate but whom I’m not in love with either (SPN, at the end of the day is all about Sam and Dean for me, so I’m heavily biased, and it is one of the reasons I don’t particular care who dies as long as the two of them are standing at the end of the day). His character serves a purpose, which at the end of the day is all I need from characters, however, can you imagine fandom reaction if they had casted a woman as Castiel? Would there still be such an outpouring of squee posts, fanfiction, or fanart? Most of us are here in fandom to read (OK, that might just be me), and it just make me really uncomfortable that Castiel is currently so popular because he is male, and many people feel much more comfortable writing porn between him and Dean than Sam&Dean, which is fine. But why can’t people admit it? And seriously, why isn’t there so much fan-produced material out there for Anna? I mean she actually slept with Dean.

I just- seriously, would there be so much love for Castiel is he was a she?

OK, this comment has gotten way too long. Obviously my subconscious has been thinking about this.
waldorph: (Default)
[personal profile] waldorph wrote:
Apr. 21st, 2009 03:43 pm (UTC)
I absolutely agree that this fandom hates female characters. I don't get it- because I think if you're reducing the women to "How can they threaten Sam & Dean?!" you're turning them into flat sexualized characters no matter how the character is written/portrayed.

I'd like to see more Anna fanfic- maybe I'll have to write some (that way I get to legitimately complain ;)), because I like to see what fans do with characters, taking them beyond the boundaries the show allows. Except in this fandom, like I said, characters seem to get shrunken to shadows of what they are canonically.

I know for myself I don't like Wincest- I get it; I can rationalize it, I'm just not comfortable with it. And I do know that if Castiel had been a woman I would have wanted to turn her into a Tessa figure- a sort of guardian and companion rather than a sexual partner. I think that that probably comes out of the fact that Dean is portrayed as such a womanizer- I would have wanted the female angel to resist him. But that's just me. I'm sure the fandom would have thrown a massive temper tantrum, complete with crocodile tears and flailing fists.

I was also watching a interview with the actress who played Jo at a con- a fan noted that her storyline wasn't given closure, and the actress sort of looked disappointed and rueful. That's what bugs me about Kripke- he seems to listen to the tantrums. I didn't mind Jo, and I'd have liked to know what really happened to her.
charmian: a snowy owl (Default)
[personal profile] charmian wrote:
Apr. 21st, 2009 09:27 am (UTC)
I think that's fine! Doing reviews, meta, and squeeing are perfectly fine contributions to fandom.

However, I think when it comes to influencing others into a way of thinking, it isn't necessarily about having that social capital, one can do it just by writing the post really well, or dropping into existing conversations and talking, IMHO. (Of course, social capital certainly helps) It's when one starts projects that capital becomes fairly important.

I don't follow SPN very much, but whoa, the fandom meta is coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE, er show.
petronia: (Default)
[personal profile] petronia wrote:
Apr. 22nd, 2009 05:38 am (UTC)
Yeah, the obvious downside to the whole "we see U fans" biz is when fans are collectively dicks. (See also: those prepubescent loli moe anime series, etc.)
naanima: (Default)
[personal profile] naanima wrote:
Apr. 22nd, 2009 06:07 am (UTC)
Oh gods, the loudest SPN fans almost always appear to be dicks. The whole this horribly embarrassing.
charmian: a snowy owl (Default)
[personal profile] charmian wrote:
Apr. 22nd, 2009 09:09 am (UTC)
Well, I suppose for once media fandom has had an effect on show direction. But man, SPN fandom is just special really.
naanima: (Default)
[personal profile] naanima wrote:
Apr. 22nd, 2009 06:07 am (UTC)
It's when one starts projects that capital becomes fairly important.

*NODS* So very true.

Oh yes... Misha Collins, by all reports, is a very interesting and smart individual, who tend to say things that make fandom feel really uncomfortable. The guy finds fandom, specifically slash fandom, to be absolutely fascinating, and that he would love to study fandom because it is so organic. Or something.

The whole thing is absolutely fascinating from the inside, sort of.
charmian: a snowy owl (Default)
[personal profile] charmian wrote:
Apr. 22nd, 2009 09:10 am (UTC)
Good for him. I wonder what he'll do next to rile up the fandom.

Profile

naanima: (Default)
[personal profile] naanima
witty, somehow

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