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naanima: (Default)
Naruto 237... hmm, actually saw that one coming.

I'm confused. I'm pretty sure the implication from the previous two chapters was that Sasuke was not going to be walking up to Orochimaru and say, 'Yo, d00d. Teach me how to bitch-slap my brother'. Or am I missing something. And why is Jiriya so set on Sasuke going after Orochimaru, Sasuke is NOT like Orochimaru. Sure, both of them have major obesessive drives but they are NOT the same. The reasons for Sasuke's search for power is completely different from that of Orochimaru, and that makes all the damn difference. Actually, I'm -really- hating the parallels that the manga is drawing between Team 7 and the the Sannin. They are NOT the same dammit. To say that that Team 7 is like the Sannin is belittling them, and it is really irritiating the hell out of me. But I'll shut up because I believe K-sensei. Honest.

I'm hoping for a major Time Jump. I don't think I can deal with more training. I -need- more plot. Beside, 15-YR-OLDS! OMFG!

Anyways, KAKASHI!!! *fangirls*

If you think about it Orochimaru would make a really good Dr. Frank-N-Furter. I can practically see him saying, "a sweet transvestite from Transsexual Transylvania," and my brain keep on whispering to me that Sasuke would make a good Janet.

I confess, I just want to see them do the 'Time Warp Again'.


[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2004 11:28 pm (UTC)
:D I was pretty sure he was still going off to Orochimaru--that the "I'll do this my own way" was, instead, referencing his brother. (He won't kill his closest friend for the power just because Itachi said that was what's necessary--he'll make Orochimaru give him a new way to do it.) But, yes. Jiraiya is on crack. He and Naruto might be similar, Sakura might possibly resemble Tsunade very for into the future with a lot of work, but Sasuke and Orochimaru are totally different types.

I don't even think that what Orochimaru wants is power. I think he wants power just because it will help bring him knowledge, his ultimate goal. And, hey, Sasuke really just wants to kill his brother and possibly, if he's still alive, rebuild his clan.

The comparison thing gets to me, too. So lame. :D

(No time jump! Even if that's clearly what he is trying to set up. Nooo...!)
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 29th, 2004 11:35 pm (UTC)
But if they do Time Jump, it means I don't have to feel so guilty about singing the 'Time Warp Again' song everytime I watch/read Naruto or Naruto-fandom related things. But I don't think it will be that soon, he needs to work through a few things first. Maybe in another volume or (maybe 2/3 chapteres time) we'll have a Time Jump.

Oh thank the gods I'm not the only one. I like the Sannin, but dammit keep away from my babies you old fogey *cuddles Team 7*

Ah, that makes much more sense, I was attempting to read the Chinese (poor level of Chinese) scans of 'Naruto' so, I wasn't getting all the subtle stuff. Alright, so, no killing friends. Good. But going to Orochimaru... oh, Sasuke you little idiot.

Orochimaru is interesting 'cos I really, really, really hate his guts, and that is rare for anime/manga characters. Usually there's some sort of redeeming features to the bad guys, but not Orochimaru, he's a evil twerp who wants to be Immortal, and will do anything to stay young and pretty. Vain bastard.

[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 02:01 am (UTC)
Usually there's some sort of redeeming features to the bad guys, but not Orochimaru, he's a evil twerp who wants to be Immortal, and will do anything to stay young and pretty. Vain bastard.
:D Orochimaru is totally my favourite character. (Well. Along with Gaara, Kakashi, Temari, and Kabuto. Never let it be said that I'm decisive.) I don't think that immortality and youth is actually the biggest part of it for him. The reason I think his voice in the anime is so perfect is that it always sounds like he's about to laugh, like he finds everything amusing. I think he wants immortality&power&c. not for their own sake but because he wants to see everything, to know everything. He wants every jutsu in the world--he wants to know it all. He really does have a playful sort of personality (when we see him right before Kakashi and Kabuto meet in Sasuke's hospital room, he's daring Kabuto to kill Sasuke--because it seems that, for him, figuring out Kabuto's mind is more interesting than getting the Sharingan). At least, that's how I see him.

Anyway, his vanity pales beside Tsunade's. :D
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 12:09 am (UTC)
Maybe Sasuke won't go to Orochimaru after all and Jiraiya's just assuming things, but he probably will. Though, I also don't understand the connection between Sasuke deciding to get power his own way (without hurting people he loves) and going to Orochimaru, because that totally defeats his resolution. But then, Sasuke's not just going to hang out in the forest alone for three years, and with all the Team 7 = Sannin parallels, it's really looking like Sasuke will go go Orochimaru.

Speaking of the parallels, they've been hinted at since waaaay before the Sannin were even introduced (with all those chapter covers of Team 7 with the legendary animals), but I don't want them to become copies of the Sannin, either. I think from this chapter, one distinction between Naruto and Jiraiya was made clear -- Naruto won't give up on his friends no matter what, while Jiraiya just gave up. And I agree, Sasuke isn't like Orochimaru at all, and I think I'd go crazy if Sasuke became an Orochimaru clone somehow.

And about Orochimaru, one of the reasons I like him is because he's just evil and doesn't have any redeeming qualities. Well, I don't like him, really, but neither do I hate him. He just amuses me and creeps me out at the same time. But I think I'll be really disappointed if Orochimaru does end up having some kind of reason behind him being so screwed up, because it's just fun having a villain who's screwed up for no reason, you know?

Also, about the time jump, I didn't really want one at first, but I think one is necessary, now. I mean, we spent 7.5 volumes on ONE day. =_= That's more than a fourth of the whole series. At this rate, we'll be grandmas by the time the series finishes, and there's no way Kishimoto's going to spend 3 years on training.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 01:05 am (UTC)
I agree. Sasuke will have to go to Orochimaru, the parallels between Team 7 and the Sanin are too strong to ignore. Now, it is more of a question as to what Sasuke want from Orochimaru. I mean it is a bit of a let down if Sasuke does decide to follow Orochimaru's footsteps, the boy just went through 7.5 volumes (7.5 volumes?! I knew this arc was taking a bit, but 7.5 volumes?!) to realise that he will -not- hurt the ones he love, thus, following Orochimaru and gunning for Leaf is just a bit much. So, I can see potential deal being cut, but if that is so, isn't Sasuke relying on others once more? (there just doens't seem to be a way out).

I remember the cover! I also remember thing 'Sakura, you are going to soooo cool!' It took awhile, but cool Sakura has finally arrived! Exactly, this chapter definitely highlighted the difference. On r e-reading (going through the volumes before Sasuke skips town) a few volumes, the difference between T7 and the Sanin are only highlighted more. Sakura doesn't have Tsunade's confidence, Naruto WON'T LET GO! (LOVE!), and Sasuke have too much emotions. And I love that, I truly do. It is the differences that make me love the three of them that much more.

Orochimaru = Villain of the Year. I like the fact that I can hate Orochimaru without thinking too much on it. Orochimaru is Evil Bastard. Hate. Hate. Hate. And it is fun because Orochimaru doens't excuse himself. He want power, he want immortality, and he's more than slightly insane. And that's fun!

I don't want the time jump to happen straight away but I don't want another two volumes of nothing by levelling up (or 7.5 volumes of a 'day'). That would kill me. At the same time I don't want him to speed up the three years to the point that we don't get to see How the characters change (they will change, they must change). And I have jsut realised that if K-sensei does the time jump, it'll be like fanfiction.

The world have become strange.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 12:45 am (UTC)
I have no idea on whether Sasuke is going off to Orochimaru; what he says implies that he's changed his plans in *some* way, but we don't know how or what he means. But K-sensei is drawing the parallels so strongly that I suspect something more must happen between Orochimaru and Sasuke.

I think Jiraiya doesn't know Sasuke like Naruto does. I mean, how much has he hung out with him? He's only seen him from a distance, and Orochimaru, I agree, is just not like Sasuke. Orochimaru is basically a psychopath, and Sasuke is more of an emotionally normal person (well, not that normal) who's just really messed up by Itachi's psychological manipulations. So I though Jiraiya was basically wrong about Sasuke, though I thought he was right about saying that it was better for Naruto to just deal already with the fact that Sasuke had made a bad decision. I mean, Sasuke was in pain there, and Orochimaru in the flashback simply felt nothing. So obviously what we have here is Jiraiya "projecting." (am I using the correct psychological term?)

Orochimaru as Frank. -_- I h8 you, I really do.

I'm divided on the time jump, but I think it is likely based on what they said about Akatsuki. We have no idea why Akatsuki is also going to wait three years (that makes no sense), but there really are no major plot threads to be followed up on other than the continuing Sound threat and Akatsuki.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 01:25 am (UTC)
... ARGHHH! lj deleted my long reply. Hate, hate, hate.

Anyways, continuing one.

Ditto on the T7 and Sanin parallels and subsequent meeting bewteen Sasuke and Orochimaru. The question it, will it be a pleasant meeting (negotiations are fun), or will only one of them walk away.

I think the Jiriaya is not the only one guilty of projecting (yes, it is the right term) more than they should on Sasuke And Naruto. It is sad, but they do it, and it will come to bite them on the arse. Like you, I do agree with Jiriaya's comment on Naruto needing to deal with the fact that Sasuke made a bad choice, but the thing with Naruto is, I really can't tell if he's dealing with it or if it is just not registering that Sasuke made a booboo and will not be coming back. At times it is hard to tell with the boy. But either way if nothing else this chapter does prove that 'Nah, Jiriaya, this boy is so not you.' And I like the fac t that K-sensei highlights the difference.

Orochimaru as Frank. -_- I h8 you, I really do.

Don't forget Sasuke as Janet and Naruto as Delivery Boy. I need to find a good Riff Raff.

Time Jump: Storywise, it will work, but I don't want K-sensei to skip the character development that will happen with a three year jump. They are 12, three years is a looong time fro 12-yr-olds. And they change so much as well. But at the same time I'm desperate for the plot. Desperate! one of them walk away.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 01:41 am (UTC)
Hmph, that's why I always reply out of my mail client. It always pops out, so I always have the original comment to resend. ^^

I think pretty much they do have to have a negotiation of some sort. Like they said, there is the three year thing, and Sasuke thus is safe until then. So I figure there will be an apprenticeship of some sort. (The internship of eeeeevil)

Oh, I don't think Naruto is dealing with it much at all. I felt it was very mature of Sakura to tell him that she didn't hold him responsible because damn it, Naruto tried, he gave it his all, and ultimately it was Sasuke's choice to make, not Naruto's. Now, I think Sasuke will probably come back, so Naruto doesn't need to write him off, but in my opinion, I just think it's unfortunate that Naruto so strongly feels that it's his responsibility to *make* Sasuke come back. He pretty much told Sasuke as strongly as he could, but Sasuke still said no. And at that point I think that's all one could have reasonably expected Naruto to do. But it's probably because I get all existentialist here that I basically believe it's 'disrespectful' of Sasuke's responsibility for Naruto to feel so responsible for him, if that makes any sense.

Hmm, now where does Kabuto fit into that little scenario? XD

Time Jump: If he is going to do it, I'd like to see it start off with an intro of the aged characters, and then go to a flashback of the important events in the intervening years. To me that would be a good compromise.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 08:15 am (UTC)
I have learned from my mistake, now I just write in notepad and save every second word.

The internship of eeeeevil

*snicker* And tonight on the 'Intership of Evil, we have Mr. Evil himself, Orochimaru-sama, as our special guest.'

Naruto's feelings: I really can't say at the moment because I'm of two mind on this topic. I can't tell if he's trying to get Sasuke back because he want Sasuke back (purely selfish reasoning. Want my best friend back) or if he's going down the well trodden path, 'I want to save him from himself.' The line between responsibility and selfish want has become quite blurred for me (and probly Naruto). It isn't just about saving (bringing Sasuke back) for Sakura now, it is about bring back a friend. And in my little mind I want to think that it is Naruto's selfish want for his friend back that's driving him rather than some sense of responsibility.

And I do understand what you mean on the 'disrepectful' aspect of Naruto feeling responsibility (actually, that was my big bone on this whole arc. Why are you chasing after someone who has made his own decision? That's just disrepectful of his choices.)

Kabuto... ohhhh. I don't know but I WANT to know. I WANT to KNOW!

I'd like to see it start off with an intro of the aged characters, and then go to a flashback of the important events in the intervening years.

That's pretty much how i want to see it happening. The good things with the scenario is that it allows K-sensei to add more 'important' moments in a character's life in flashbacks ^__^V

[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 12:17 pm (UTC)
Naruto: I think he isn't selfish and really is thinking of doing things for Sasuke's sake. However, I still think it just isn't good for Naruto to see this as his personal failure, because it just wasn't up to him in the first place, if that makes any sense. So Naruto is only twelve, so it's not like I expect him to realize that he can't make Sasuke not make bad choices, but it still frustrates me that he doesn't seem to realize that other people screw up their own lives, and once you've said your piece, that's all you can do and you should stop beating yourself up over it.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 10:36 pm (UTC)
Actually, that irritate me as well. I hate the fact that everyone seem incapable of letting Sasuke make his own way (or his own mistakes), and that Naruto keep on thinking he can SAVE everyone and when he fails he goes on blaming himself. It makes him so damn arrogant. It just seems to belittle what Sasuke is trying to do, and what Chouji, Neji and the rest suffered to accomplish.

Does that make sense?
[identity profile] wrote:
Nov. 1st, 2004 09:29 pm (UTC)
I have a feeling that it's totally a cultural difference and this sort of attitude is more valorized in Japanese culture (culture of interdependence), but my American existentially-oriented self does find that kind of irritating.

Sasuke is a kid, but after all, so is Naruto, and the adults, interestingly, have a less paternalist attitude towards Sasuke than Naruto. But since Naruto is the main person harming himself through this, I just pity him, and yes, it does speak of a certain lack of perspective of Naruto that he thinks he can solve all these problems, but he is after all only twelve and has time to learn.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 03:32 am (UTC)
parrallel is their way of life. They are in complete denial of the present time.

Look how Tsunade is always comparing the people she met with her beloved dead ones. And How every single person who met Naruto found a striking resemblance between Naruto with somebody else (at the end you have naruto=gaara and jiraiya=naruto so jiraiya=gaara ?).

They all live in the past and can't accept that kids are not a copycat of an other adult but a entity of his own. It's all about the difference between societies which see human as individual and human as a part of something bigger.

I like Jiraiya but I wish everytime he compare Sasuke with Orochimaru that he could chock on himself. I think it's a way for him to dismiss his own failure regarding Orochimaru. It's comforting for Jiraiya to compare with Naruto. I don't usually think high of Naruto but here he's way better than any member of the leaf village by not letting down Sasuke.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 08:04 am (UTC)
Exactly. It is that old syndrome of living life through your children, and that is just wrong.

How every single person who met Naruto found a striking resemblance between Naruto with somebody else

I absolutely hate that. It make me want to scream and pull my hair. Naruto is Naruto and not someone else that is already dead and buried. You do justice by remembering the dead, not letting it colour the way you live or perceive the world. It just make me mad.

(jiraiya=gaara is fightening on many levels.)

I adore Jiraiya, but his inability to see beyond Sasuke is LIKE Orochimaru makes me angry. And I'm pretty sure you are right, it is as if to say wha tI did wasn't a failure because He Was Bad, so, I Gave Up. Sasuke is obviously like that, and now he's gone, it is not our fault (he's DAMN 12!). It must be because he's so like Orochimaru.

ext_73923: (Default)
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 09:31 am (UTC)
I posted a really cool response, involving Sasuke and mountains, and studying for 10 years, and the chick that he'll fall in love with, except that she'd be his half sister, and her father, who'd be his mortal enemy Itachi and Naruto loitering around in the background somewhere.

but then livejournal ate it, the bastard.
[identity profile] wrote:
Oct. 30th, 2004 10:33 pm (UTC)
I know of your pain. Lj have been eating my entries *sniffles*

But you know, that would make a real cool fic. Except the half sister, because dammit I want my manSmut.


naanima: (Default)
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witty, somehow

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