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psychology wank about free will

  • Feb. 21st, 2004 at 9:47 PM
naanima: (eyeballs)
One of my psych lectures last year discussed the issue of whether individuals have free will?

What I remember from the lecture was that there are people who experiences no physiological arousal to highly traumatic events, or experience sympathy to others. The example used was that certain criminals show no reaction (remorse, or any pysiological response) to other people's suffering, this include the victims of their crimes. This lack of response seem to be a result of some form of wrongness in their perception. That is, there's something defective in their physiological make up that do not allow them to perceive events the same way as most, which in turn generate responses such as sympathy, etc.

Mind you, who's to say that they are suffering from some form of defection, for all we know it's just another lovely step in the human evolution.

Anyways, the point is that this lack of response to the pain of others does not mean they don't know what's morally right to what's morally wrong. In fact, they often have a heightened awareness of what's socially acceptable. When these people choose to commit a crime, they are in effect employing their free will to decide. It might be harder (or impossible) for them to care for those they hurt, but they do understand perfectly that they are likely to suffer the consequences of such actions. And it's in their free will to decide whether to commit a crime or not.

All of this boils down to the point that people choose to do and be who they are. There's a whole list of reasons as to why people (and myself) wouldn't agree to this, mainly because circumstances often forces people to act in certain ways. But as my lecturer at the time (the bastard) pointed out to us, doing something or doing nothing, no matter the circumstance is still a matter of free will. Each individual decide their own actions no matter the context, it's just that we might choose do do things for purely selfish reasons, such as our own survival rather than that of a stranger.

And this feels like a semi-existentialistic rant on nothing. *sighs*

Comments

[identity profile] naruvonwilkins.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 21st, 2004 10:09 am (UTC)
On that point about evolution:
Isn't pretty much any reproducible mutation technically evolution? If you only define it as successful mutation, someone without empathy could be successful or unsuccessful depending on their social situation and on their recognizance of it.

On free will:
Many people have compulsive behavior problems which can cause them to decide to do things that hurt others, but feel pain/remorse for their victims. Did the psych lecture cover any of the chemical imbalances that can sometimes override reasoning?
[identity profile] naanima.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 22nd, 2004 04:07 am (UTC)
Re:
That's pretty much the point. It can be argued that any genetic mutation (no matter how small a percentage of the population has it) can still be considered to be a step in the human evolution. It's just that the most likely characteristics to be passed on are the socially desirable traits. And sociopathic tendencies are definitely not socially acceptable.

No, he didn't. And dammit now I wish I had thought of that (dislike the bastard, I have major differing views with about g and the human IQ, hell, I pretty much disagree with him on everything). But to be fair he probably would have shot me down by saying that people suffering from compulsive behaviours doesn't hurt others, but rather perform repetitive rituals to soothe their continuous thoughts that result in their high levels of anxiety.

And in regard to chemical imbalances, he didn't even touch the subject, but I can semi answer that. People who -truly- suffer from chemical imbalance (and the only true psychological illness that seem to be caused by biology is schizophrenia, unipolar and bipolar) still make their decision based on -their- personal beliefs. And when they decide to hurt others at the the time of the action, they are still employing their free will to decide based on what they perceive to be the truth.

Overall, it's hard to answer the question when the chemical imbalance is not defined. And if it's defined, well, often evidence dose not support the illness as a result of chemical imbalance. It's more often a mixture of environmental factors and social factors.
[identity profile] worldserpent.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 21st, 2004 02:17 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I don't understand why people not experiencing sympathy to others has anything at all to do with free will. Why would people without empathy magically have no free will? To them choosing to harm another human being is like choosing chocolate or vanilla (or more memorably, breaking an arm is like breaking a glass), but even if I have little emotional investment in making a choice and feel that it has no moral meaning (say as in, there is no moral meaning attached to choosing chocolate or vanilla pocky, but the chocolate costs more, and that's why I did it), this does not call into question, philosophically, my free will.

Probably a more vexing question than whether people are free to do what they want is whether they are free to desire what they desire.
[identity profile] naanima.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 22nd, 2004 04:14 am (UTC)
Re:
It was used more as an example to discourage those in the lecture who believed that poeple who feel no remorse for crimes they've committed as intrinstically evil. Also, I think he was trying to discourage the students from making the simple assumption that people who are considered to be sociopaths as having no free will. That is, they don't know what they are doing, you can't blame them for hurting others, and so forth.

And ohh, I like your analogy of ice cream.

Exactly.

[identity profile] worldserpent.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 22nd, 2004 02:31 pm (UTC)
Re:
But 'evil' is a theological and moral term, not a psychological one. I think the problem is that we tend to base morality on having the correct sentiment, so a person incapable of having moral feelings can never become moral. (I actually agree and say that sociopaths are intrinsically amoral, and reserve the term evil for those who could be good but choose not to) People don't behave on rational grounds, usually, but on emotional ones. On the current system of moral reasoning we're working on, however, a person is judged by their intent. If a person simply refrains from killing other people on consequential grounds (i.e., I must not go round slaughtering folks because I don't want to go to jail) this isn't really 'moral' or 'good,' just rational.
[identity profile] naanima.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 23rd, 2004 05:51 am (UTC)
Re:
god, I love your brain. please let me eat it. or at least drool at it.

sorry, i think the fma comment has eaten all my brain power. but why aren't you a great philosopher somewhere in the tamed Wilderness living off seedless grapes and being visited by people seeking wisdom?

*now going to collapse*
[identity profile] nekomancy.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 22nd, 2004 05:00 pm (UTC)
I, therefore, choose...
to do nothing. ^^ kekeke

Btw, did I ask you about ice-skating? @ Rink @ 1 p.m. nekos will be there by 1:30 at latest, shall buzz you after work to see if you want to observe ppl's free will getting them into all sorts of strife/pain/suffering.
[identity profile] naanima.livejournal.com wrote:
Feb. 22nd, 2004 05:13 pm (UTC)
Re: I, therefore, choose...
Don't bother. Will be at Curtin till 6:30pm... or 7pm.

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