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"Beneath the social ought to be the natural. Beneath the duties that tie us to individuals, there ought to be a duty that ties us to all men and women whatever their relation to us. In fact, beneath the social, the historical, there is nothing at all.

When a Jew could no longer appeal to his fellow German as a neighbour, as a friend, as a relation, as a partner, as a fellow Jew even, when at the end, naked at the barbed wire, he could only appeal to the man with a whip as a fellow human being, then it was more than too late. When men confront each other as men, as abstract universals, one with power, the other with none, then man is certain to behave as a wolf to his own kind.

... we recognise our mutual humanity in our differences, in our individuality, in our history, in our faithful discharge of our particular culture of obligations. There is no identity we can recognise in our universality. There is no such things as love of the human race, only the love of this person for that, in this time and not in any other.

... woe betide any man who depends on the abstract humanity of another for his food and protection. Woe betide any person who has no state, no family, no neighbourhood, no community that can stand behind to enforce his claim of need."

Michael Ignatieff, The needs of strangers. pp 52-53.

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[identity profile] worldserpent.livejournal.com wrote:
Oct. 16th, 2003 01:53 am (UTC)
Darn, this is interesting. Psychology vs. philosophy, anyone?

There's a school of thought that holds that humanity is in a state of moral progress where we go beyond the family to the tribe to the region to the nation and then to all of humanity in terms of recognizing their humanity. Not sure I ever believed it, but there's been the birth of the idea that people should experience this, whether it's psychologically tenable or not.
[identity profile] naanima.livejournal.com wrote:
Oct. 16th, 2003 04:04 am (UTC)
The problem with psychology vs philosophy is that more often than not the former will confirm the latter. This process may take decades, even centuries. What psychology provide is the empirical evidence and a scientific explanation to explain it all. All in all, it's rather interesting to realise what some long dead dude with a beard was right.

Mind you, this really only apply to certain aspects of psychology.

While the concept is fascinating and intrigue me, I, like you, am rather dubious of the theory. It has to be remembered that morals are a human invention, and like everything in a human society will change with time. What we hold as morals today might not be the same as what we hold in the far future. While I'm not sure that people should experience this, I do belief people should belief in something that is altruistic and beneficial to the human race. If nothing else this will help to make a person a far happier individual. After all, the happiest people are the ones with positive delusions of the world.
[identity profile] worldserpent.livejournal.com wrote:
Oct. 16th, 2003 01:22 pm (UTC)
Hmm, but what's interesting is when a psychologist "takes a side" in a philosophy debate on human nature. Psychology is supposed to study human nature, and philosophy sometimes did this before psychology was invented.

Yes, the idea that humans have progressed morally only makes sense if you hold the morals of this period. If you believe that humans should only regard their own tribe as humans, you probably think morals have declined. But maybe this point is too obvious, because the dominant morality held by the most powerful people will always regard itself as not inferior to past moralities.

On self-deception. The problem with the placebo effect is that it can't be known to be a placebo. But the problem with delusions is that they might make us happy in the short run, but that not knowing the truth will sometimes cause us to make bad decisions that make us unhappy.

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