But by leaving it means that LJ will have the 'community' they want, getting rid of anyone they find to be against their sense of what’s right and what’s wrong. It is pretty obvious that the latest fiasco was aimed at HP explicit art, and I'm pretty sure LJ would be perfectly happy for ALL HP slash fans off their server. It is like they are making things difficult for a section of the community that can get them into legal hot waters but would be perfectly happy if every other fan who is interested for the 'sexual' aspect of fandom to leave as well. And I'm just feeling contrary enough to stay because I no one has the right to tell me what I can and can’t write/draw. Leaving means that they get their ‘community’ because all the people who does have issues with LJ’s TOS would have left, and new customers/users won't actually know what they are getting into (not that they'd care, but some might). And to me that means they win.

I actually do agree with everything you are saying especially in relation to the way you are reading fans/users reaction to the law. I'm actually fine with the whole deletion of HP fanart and so forth; it is in LJ's rights. I'm even fine with their unclear policy, I am, however, not OK with the utter incompetence at which LJ is handling the issue. Staff members going out of their way disrespecting customer, and a lack of transparency in the LJ abuse team and the 6A/LJ's policies makes me very angry. Also, it is the inconsistencies in their policies that get to me. It is fine to have pro-anoerexia communities and it is OK to have KKK communities, but it is not OK to have HP fanart. The way I figure if they are going to alienate part of their customer base with PR BS, they really should have thought better of it.

Basically, the major issue for me here is that LJ screwed up and does NOT own up their mistakes. This whole thing could have been avoided if they had actually clarified their TOS, asked everyone to remove their fanart, and THEN deleted journals that did not abide by their rules, but no, they deleted and suspended journals at times when they thought fans were most unaware.

So, I suppose, for me, I'm not arguing the legality issues of what LJ did because as far as I'm concerned they have the right to do whatever because it is their server. However, at the same time they mocked, lied, and tried subterfuge to get things pass their customers.

Australian law versus US law, uh, in what sense? Also, I'm actually very unsure of Aust laws.

I see your point. But for once I'm going for the "if we complain enough something will happen," I mean it works for all the other extremist groups *koffs* (tongue in cheek intended). It is just one of those points we are going to have to disagree on.

In regard to LJ ex-staff member - exactly. I can understand protecting oneself; it is the smart thing to do. Honestly speaking I think LJ is just trying to get rid of HP slash because HP is monolith of money and power, WB can squash LJ with very little thought.

See, when the whole LJ fiasco started up back in May I was kind of bemused by the whole thing. But now I'm just really stunned by LJ’s stupidity, and while it was about fandom, it honestly isn't anymore, at least not for me. I whole heartedly believe that LJ did the smart thing by removing content that could get them into hot water. However, I also know that LJ dropped the ball on the way they handled the whole situation. My objection to the whole kafuffle - the way LJ handled the situation and continual mishandling of it, and not the outcome (removal of content that could land them in deep sh*t). Having said that, events have reached the point that the way LJ did their business has seriously inflamed the situation.

If only they EXPLAINED themselves! If only the deleted journals got a WARNING, if only… either way LJ screwed themselves over royally.

Perhaps people can mount a campaign to get racial hate off of LJ, but it won't have anything to do with fandom.

I like that idea. Also, see above for my comment about me not taking this as a fandom thing so much as seeing it from a customer perspective. If I leave it won’t be for fandom, it will be because LJ truly failed on their corporate governance.

Abuse has always lacked transparency, but it seems this is the first time a large group of people are challenging it.

It always amazes me when corporate forgets that the Internet is the place where people do care. Things that people will forget/allow in RL are something that will send people online into a feeding frenzy. And yet, businesses continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Ah, the chan thing, I remember now. I honestly don’t know because pretty much missed that one completely. See what I mean about staying and TALKING about it always so that new people can be taught! ;p

*Nods* What still gets me is why didn't they just makes s statement about the whole thing? I mean I would have understood them if they had told me - 'Due to the current political climate, to protect us and you, our customers, changes to our policy have/will be made..." Or something like it.

From what I've seen the legimate issues that have been ignored can come back and bite LJ on the arse.

I'm pretty much on the same boat as you, though I still want to talk about it because I honestly believe it ist the only way LJ will know how NOT to conduct business in the future. I can always hope.

Not Skyhawke so much as just things in general. It is sad, but I get most of my news from my flist or certain book marked sites.

a) May was just over two months ago. *Sighs*.

I make comments once, and only once. Then I go and make more noise on my own LJ, or other people's LJ. I'm a lurker at heart. Also, LJ's actions has/have/ been rather dumb.

This doesn't actually surprise me much. Sex in relation to minors always an explosion waiting to happen. It actually surprises me when people don't protect themselves btter when producing fanfiction than can get them into trouble. Also, Australian law/government is becoming more and more conservative. Don't even get me started on the stupid laws the Federal governtment are trying to pass.

They really need to employ someone who does nothing but PR. It isn't as if they don't have the money for it.

Whatever they do, or the users do, it is going to be really interesting.

Thanks for the link! Will check it up.

That is sad.

In relation to link - interesting. Well, at least they made it extremely clear. Also, what happens when it is written or produced by someone who is also underage? I remember being 16 or 17, and into anime and manga.

... What?

Um, with prison? Fine?

As for pro-ana, there haven't been any laws against it.

Sure there are. "Contributing to the delinquency of a minor" laws. Encouraging impressionable kids to hurt themselves is a crime.

There are no *specific* anti-pro-ana laws, but there are also no specific anti-slash-fic/art laws.

As for pro-ana, there haven't been any laws against it. When people start legislating, that'll be when LJ boots them.

Where's the law that says homoerotic art is illegal? its not.

pro-ana comms instuct people on how to starve themselves to death- to harm themselves. LJ's TOS prohibits postings to cause among other things harm. it doesn't matter if its legal or not, its against their TOS.

if LJ prohibitted catmacros in their TOS, that's their right as a private business, and has nothign to do with freespeech. and they turn a blind eye to catmacro sharing comms, especially if they then go after walrus macros, even though nothing was said about those in the TOS, then people are going to call them on it.