Ditto on the Sasuke love!
(And what I don't get is mindless Itachi love and Sasuke hate combined... I mean, HELLO THERE!!)

Hmm, from what I hear on my flist, it seems that Naruto chara bashing of all the characters is quite rife. This seems different from the other Jump fandoms I know of. In Bleach, there isn't much character bashing at all. Everyone pretty much loves the characters, or if they dislike them, they can do so in a semi-intelligent way. In DN, except for Misa, where the role the mangaka puts her in pretty much guarantees the reaction she gets, people also like the characters... well, even though by moral standards Light is much worse than most of the Naruto characters. Of course I don't really know, because I avoid the DN fandom and anyway don't waste my time bashing the puppets when I have issues with the puppetmaster. In TeniPuri, people are...well, I'm out of the loop as regards TeniPuri. It seems people on my flist aren't too into it anymore.

Hey, Tsunade is a doctor, not a nurse, although there is the female white mage stereotype. I just don't know, actually, why people have all this Naruto chara hate. Maybe it's the strong fanboy who would beat whom contingent? But then you get fangirls saying the same things. Hmmm. But then I get the feeling that Kubo Tite is much better at manipulating the audience than Kishimoto.

Light: I guess Light is not supposed to be liked, but just found entertaining. Same with Misa.

Heh, it does seem to be mostly a Japanese thing.

Oh yes, ancient Chinese novels. Like Hua Tuo from 3K. Meets a rather sticky end, but has so far seemed pretty amusing in Ravages of Time.

GW, though, was only Relena, and that was in a shippy context (and we all know shippers have a tendency to be nutbars). The weird thing about the Naruto chara hate is that it all comes from a non shipper context.

I guess it is that we're not told to like Light or admire him or feel sorry for him. Same with Misa. (Although at parts I do feel sorry for her, though she is actually not trying for our sympathy)

Yeah, if there's an Ancient Chinese RPG, I'm not going to choose the doctor chara class.

Well, GWing fandom was a perfect storm of psychosis. I think with Naruto it is partially the fanboyism, but I asked this question in my journal so hopefully others may have some insight.

Well, at least Light is nice to look at. Nowadays I'm getting sort of disillusioned with DN.

GOD, YES. I mean, of course I don't mind if someone doesn't like Sasuke -- everyone's entitled to their own opinion, and if you hate Sasuke but mindlessly love Itachi then, well, whatever. You're weird, but it's your right *to* be weird. What irks me when people BRUSH OFF HIS PROBLEMS, all "it could've been worse" or "he should be thankful that he's still alive at all" or "you can overcome hardship without turning into a bastard."

Um, what? You whine on your LJ when your mother won't buy you an iPod!

We are surrounded by hypocrites. -.-

Yesss.

I've managed to avoid seeing a lot of the character bashing since I don't do much besides skim around the fandom and stay mostly in Sasuke-centric communities, but word. I mean, I can understand why people don't like Sasuke, and I know that liking him means I'm goign to have to act as an apologist for his actions sometimes, but...it still just grates on me sometimes.

Especially when the other person won't listen. I think I spent half an hour once trying to explain why I would probably not have liked Sasuke anymore if he had turned around and come back to Konoha, and it was like slamming my head against a wall. Sheeze. I finally gave up and ended the conversation by apologizing for liking him. It was pathetic. *shakes head*

Though, heh, like that person above stated, Light is my favorite character from Death Note. So, since I like the sociopath with a God complex, I'm pretty down with my liking one self-centered asshole prettyboy. *grin*

I think my problem in that conversation was that I was trying to use as an example a book that apparently nobody on the bloody planet but me has read--Thieves & Kings.

I don't have it here with me, so I can't give you the exact quote, but the basic is that two characters, Rubel and a girl, were having a conversation about the girl's best friend (long story short, they had both been workign for an evil witch queen, and then the girl switched sides but her friend stayed). The girl (I wish I could remember her name) was talking about how they could save her the way she herself and another character, Soracia, had been saved; and Rubel said that he didn't think so because the difference between the friend and the girl and Soracia was that they had wanted to be saved and the friend didn't. And then he gave this beautiful metaphor about running in opposite directions and it just hit me upside the head, because that is exactly what Sasuke and Naruto are doing.

I mean, almost nobody expects Naruto to give up his dream of being Hokage, so why the hell are they hate that Sasuke is persuing his own dream with the same bloodyminded determination? He may have done a stupid, dangerous thing, but he showed that he did it with his eyes wide open, and I can respect that.

I like that Sasuke stayed with his dream, even if it's self-destructive and even if it's never going to make him happy in the end. I think he's been a fascinating deuteragonist so far, and I would have hated to see that end so quickly.

I'm on a quest to get Thieves & Kings (http://www.iboxpublishing.com/) more attention. I won't be hindered by a little thing like nobody having a clue what I'm talking about. *grin*

Sasuke could have killed Naruto. He didn't.
He did try to, though. Maybe he pulled the chidori back the two times he hit him with it, but when he jammed his hand through Naruto's lung, he said outright that he'd been aiming for his heart. (I'd been mistaken on this, but I reread the scans when someone corrected me on it and then started looking at Sasuke askance. *grin*) That's always been kind of weird, because he just abruptly seems to change his mind about not killing him after the whole flashback arc with Itachi. I've never been totally certain whether that was a flaw in the writing or if he finally gained respect for Naruto after seeing him in the demon fox from hell mode, of all things.
(Though considering Sasuke's attraction to power, maybe it makes sense....)

I'm not sure Sasuke will ever be able to move on, even with Itachi dead--especially since he's pretty much dedicated his life to killing him, and if he succeeds, he's going to be left hollow and floundering for some new purpose for a while. But I think he needs to kill Itachi to make everything he did with his life finally have a point. I would deeply like to believe that Sasuke will have matured enough over the gap that he's willing to just see Itachi dead, regardless of who did it, but I don't think that will happen and I don't think it would be any good to him if he did, except maybe to keep him from charging head-first into a fight he can't win.

*nod* I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen. It would take that option to force Sasuke to acknowledge that there are a few more important things than his vendetta. It's kind of a pity that we can see it coming so far in advance, but as long as it's done well, I guess it doesn't matter. *grin*

*makes a note to track down Beserk*

Aah, yes! That describes it much better. The guilt of being the only one left alive would create a sense of duty a lot more than it would a dream.

I could see Sasuke throw aside his duty as well, but only if it was a drastic situation. Like, it really would have to be Sasuke has the option of killing Itachi but only if he doesn't interfere to keep the rest of team seven from dying. Anything less than that, and I'd be hard pressed to believe it.

I mean, by this point, he's given up so much on his quest to gain enough power to kill Itachi, I think if he didn't succeed it would be like he wasted everything in the end. So it would be a sense of duty mixed with a need to justify his actions, maybe?

Well, there is the issue of their hair. (Both Sasuke and Neji LOSE. Leaf should borrow Sand's stylist.) But beyond that, yeah; all three of them had the same pattern of initial competence & coolness followed directly by onset of (perhaps justified) on-page whining bratness. :D It makes sense to like one over the others--because, well, taste--but not to like two of the three and condemn the third. (I bet these people are just biased against Sound. Do they hate Kabuto, too? And Orochimaru!)

Ninja pirates...? *joins, even if unsure of what it means*

He could! But he's fated by being a son of Hyuuga to have that bad hair. You notice that everyone we ever see from that clan, minus Hinata, has the same bad hair. It is the mark of the Hyuuga, like the Aburame bugs. (I like Temari's hair! And everyone else is pretty much covered up 24/7, right? :D) Absolutely. And you notice, the leaders in the village are all about Greater Knowledge and the foot soldiers are all about Greater Power (whether or not they actually get that power). Does not bode well for Sasuke. Would work well for Sakura, if she gained some ruthlessness.

:D! Ninja pirates are the coolest thing ever. Which is why my big Naruto project is the pirate AU. Ah, ninja pirates...!

I have nothing to add to this conversation except...

NEKOSUKE


o yea, that and, meowmeowmeowmeow.

<--out of the loop with Naruto in general, just drawin the wimmin cuz I like tits.