Experimental until stated otherwise.

Oct. 28th, 2006 05:00 am (UTC)

Ah, Jason. The son who gained favour through death and my absolute favourite of the Bat-boys :D Did he even get a stern talking-to at all? All I recalled during Winick's run was that Batman was chasing after him, and when he finally caught up with him over Joker all Jason got was a "we can't kill or we can never go back" speech. That, and Batman accidentally sliced his throat. But it was an accident! Not to mention, Batman hasn't done anything about Cassandra who had not only gone rogue, taken over the League of Assasins and then proceeded to kill all of David Cain's proteges and David himself.

Perhaps the Bat is practising favouritism? God forbid that he is doing so XD;;

Batman's mistrust of his fellow do-gooders apparently stemmed from the fact that Zatanna wiped his mind of 10 minutes of memory once during 'Identity Crisis'. It was that paranoia of being unable to trust even those who are supposed to be on his side that led him to build the Brother Eye which heralded 'Infinite Crisis'. A bit over the top for a mere 10 minutes of lost memories, methinks, but since Batman's war on crime is built on a pattern of trust (Gordon, Oracle, Robins, Batgirls, etc), maybe that is why he takes it so seriously when one of their own has strayed. Notice, of course, that the "one of their own" usually doesn't encompass his own Bat-family. Jason and Cass being examples as mentioned above.

Speaking of Superman, I don't think that even in the Elseworlds, he has been shown to exact justified vengence. It is just... bizarre. I know that in the DC offices, there's a specs sheet for Batman that all writers get when they get the job of writing the guy (according to the chap who got his Phd. in Batman studies and then proceeded to write a book called 'Batman Unmasked'), and on it it details things that Bruce Wayne/Batman can and cannot do and so on. If there is such a specs sheet for Supes (which I don't doubt there is), maybe "uncorruptable belief in humanity" is on the list of Superman/Clark Kent's traits.

i-smile.livejournal.com wrote:

Oct. 28th, 2006 06:01 am (UTC)

Dude's definitely in my top ten; he's like the bastard offspring of Omi & Orochimaru, raised by Deadpool. :D Well, Batman thinks he deserves a stern talking-to, but he isn't capable of dishing it out. (Now that I think about it, I kind of hope Dick dies for a while. It seemed to do wonders for Jason's happiness, productivity, and ability to get an emotional response from Daddy. Ollie and Donna didn't seem to lose too much by it, either.) Didn't know that stuff about Cass, though! Is she still in Gotham? Maybe Batman's biding his time. Or possibly he's still stunned over getting his little boy back (it wasn't that long ago in comics time, anyway), and so he can't deal with non-routine matters. :D

He's pretty much always been harsh on the people on his side, it seems--he's got a spotty track record with Huntress & Spoiler (maybe they're not "family" enough to get a pass) and is way harsher on Dick, for example, than on [insert Arkham guest here]--but that wouldn't help. :D I can understand not trusting those guys ever again if they were willing to erase part of his memories. I mean, it's Batman! Dwelling on the past and keeping good records is kinda his thing.

Wait, hasn't Superman taken over the world in some of those things? And been a bad guy? I hope he at least did the revenge thing then! But, man, Batman studies, :D. Did the book have a copy of the rules for Batman?

Oct. 28th, 2006 06:29 am (UTC)

According to Didio and various other sources, Dick was *supposed* to die in Infinite Crisis. So that you'd have a "Superman & Batman's proteges die" type of ending. They backed out of it because Dick had too many supporters, so only Superboy bit the bullet. Only problem was that since IC was written with plans for Dick to die, the One Year Later for Dick has been less than spectacular.

Actually, I am lying. Reading Nightwing OYL had caused me physical pain just flipping the pages. The story was bleah, and the art was no saving grace either. Now that Marv is back writing Nightwing, things can still go either way. One can only assume that since Dick was supposed to die in IC, perhaps Jason was next in line for the Nightwing mantel (as evident in him running around in Nightwing's pajamas for a while in the Nightwing comics), and things would have gone a lot differently as a result, least of which is the rest of the Bat-family's reaction. A wonderfully interesting potential - lost because fans cannot accept a change that will no doubt be reversed by the year's end. Alas!

The part about Cass was actually covered in the Robin storyline where he was framed for the murder of Batgirl. Long story short Cass has been killing off his adversaries and her own, and trying to get him to join her side because in her view, Batman had been using them as "baits" in his Fight. You know - something bright and shiny and young for the villains to take pot shots at while Batman prepares for the crippling blow. Tim didn't agree with her, and they parted ways after she pounded him good. Cass is slated to reappear as Batgirl in 'Teen Titans' in the evil counterpart team of the regular Teen Titans called 'Titans East'. They're supposed to be under Deathstroke. I'm definitely going to catch that arc since 2 of my favourite characters (Cass and Slade) are in there.

It's quite sad to see the way Cass turned out, especially since I really enjoyed her series. And the issue where Barbara accidentally thought that Batgirl liked Batman in that woman-loves-a-man kind of way and it turns out that she just really wanted physical fatherly affections from him was just... priceless.

Batman has a LOT of things on his plate right now. Aside from Talia dumping him with a boy she claimed to be his son on him (not Ibn, but some punk kid named Damian), he also legally adopted Tim as his son and is in the process of re-forming the Justice League. That means that Bruce Wayne legally and officially has 3 heirs; 4, if Damian sticks around. Well, maybe 3 still if he can't get around the legalities of Jason being alive again. And speaking of my favourite Boy Wonder, he'll be romping in Green Arrow and Outsiders next year. Yee-HAW! XD

I think the only person in the Bat-family to have ever warmed up to Huntress was Tim. Oracle seems to still have a professional type of relationship with her - she definitely isn't as close to her as Dinah. And Dick doesn't want to have anything to do with her even if he did sleep with her once. Too bad - she looked hot in that skimpy crime-fighting outfit of hers and I think she'd make a great flight for Tim >D And as for Spoiler? Man, I always thought that when Batman made her Robin, it was just his secret way of getting back at Tim for quitting - "You're leaving your post? Fine: I'll make your girlfriend Robin instead!" Plus, the arc that led to Stephanie's death never really struck a note with me. And she didn't get her own creepy display case in the Batcave either. Says loads about how Batman views her.

(cut for length)

Oct. 28th, 2006 06:41 am (UTC)

Typo edit: I think she'd make a great *fling* for Tim

i-smile.livejournal.com wrote:

Oct. 28th, 2006 08:52 am (UTC)

I'd be kind of heartbroken if Dick died, but it's comics! They always come back! Especially when 'they' are the first Robin and half the world's favourite and have been around for decades. It's not like killing him would make his life much worse right now, anyway. :D It would've been neat if Batman and Superman both lost someone, too, definitely.

Cass... is totally channelling half of the readers, isn't she? I was pretty sure that was what Robin was about. Being a pretty, mouthy distracto-boy in revealing clothing and all. I really don't believe in evil assassin Cass, but it might be interesting to watch until they write it out. :D

I'd read a bit of the Bruce & Talia's son thing, which. What? Batman doesn't seem like the type who'd have ~~sex, ever~~ lots of kids--wouldn't he be way too cautious? And also too busy to have much sex at all? It is very wrong when Batman has more children than Green Arrow. I will also sit here WTFing over Bruce adopting Tim.

Huntress/Tim would be... really great. :D Tim works well with women who would kick his ass. I'd consider a professional relationship to be pretty warm coming from Oracle, though.

I'm possibly way biased over Spoiler--she's my favourite Bat-character, and my second-favourite Robin. :D But I actually flipped through the War Drums trade last night, and it really felt like he meant it--not like he was trying to get back at Tim or to set her up to get her out of the business for good, but like he thought they could make her into a good Robin. I mean, Batman's had some really nice interaction with Spoiler in the past, and this felt a lot like a reprise of that, if interspersed with some Bat-assholery (and resolving in WTF, don't you know better by now, man?). But, er, as I said. Biased.

Oct. 28th, 2006 06:38 am (UTC)

Batman's way of being extra-harsh on his own side I feel can be justified. In a fight against a bad guy, you *know* that the guy in front of you is going to burn down your house and kill all your pets if he gets the chance. At the same time, you also *expect* the guy fighting beside you to not want to do those things. What if your ally once did those stuff? Does that mean that he is capable of becoming like the guy you're currently fighting? If Batman has to go into fights with such questions lingering, he's on some level right to be paranoia about allies who have once served the wrong side. My way of looking at it at least.

And yeah, Supes did take over a few worlds in some Elseworlds, but it all get turned into cop-outs of "I was possessed to do evil! Oh, I must right it now!" by the end of it. Always. The core of Superman is undeniable goodness, it seems.

And I believe 'Batman Unmasked' did include some of those rules. I read the old edition of it from my university's library last year - it was quite fun :D

naanima.livejournal.com wrote:

Oct. 28th, 2006 08:50 am (UTC)

*nods*

You guys are so smart. The only thing I can say is that I wish Tim and Shiva could've had a fling. They worked, for me.

i-smile.livejournal.com wrote:

Oct. 28th, 2006 08:55 am (UTC)

I agree with that, but that boy takes it to extremes. It's perfectly right to be cautious (and my definition of reasonable caution is possibly more broad than most people's) when you're doing life-threatening work in which every moment counts and you can't really afford doubt, but. There's a problem when there's nothing your people can do to be trusted. Or when the people who work for you really think they're disappointing, or when they go off to do dangerous things on their own because they don't think there's a chance you'll be on their side--it's not just Batman who needs to believe that the people he works with have his back.

I will have to look for that book! :D

Oct. 28th, 2006 09:06 am (UTC)

I'm a bit shagged to reply to all you cool cats and your comments :D;;

But I do have a post here from last year that I think you'd be interested in reading! I posted segments from Wertham's infamous 'Seduction of the Innocent' and also bits and pieces from 'Batman Unmasked'. IMHO, Adam West must learn the meaning of "made love" and not use it in the context of referring to his Boy Wonder co-star...!
http://code-renegade.livejournal.com/395403.html

Have fun!